Conversations: On The Gorean Man

Here's something while I work on my next post.

Here are some excerpts from a conversation I've enjoyed.  It shows my perspective on Gor and Gorean Men.  Most of what was going on in the background was removed to show the focus of the discussion.

Kudos to Saphrar for being Saphrar.

<@Saphrar> so Jennen
* @Saphrar grins
<@Saphrar> you proposed a topic last time you were here
<@Saphrar> If I recall, it was what qualifies a slave to be Gorean, or kajira... or something to that nature
* +Jennen nods
* +Jennen thinks
<@Saphrar> now I ask
<@Saphrar> what qualifies a man to be Gorean?
* +Jennen grins
* @Saphrar thought that would entice a grin
<@Saphrar> theres always the "I read the Books so therefore I am Gorean"
<+Jennen> That would depend, Saphrar, on whether you were talking about a Gorean man, or an honorable Gorean man.  There's a big difference between the two.
<@Saphrar> theres the "I own a slave r/l so therefore I am Gorean"
<@Saphrar> alright, then consider each in its own
<@Saphrar> often a dishonourable Gorean doesnt live long, so that may be a mute point?
* +Jennen laughs
<+Jennen> A Gorean has integrity, whether he has honor or not.
<+Jennen> He is what he is, inside and out.
<+Jennen> If he is a theif, he doesn't lie to himself and say he is a warrior.
<+Jennen> thief
<+Jennen> He says, I am a thief.
* @Saphrar nods
* +Jennen thinks
<@Saphrar> in your opinion is integrity the defining ingredient in Goreanism?
<+Jennen> A Gorean also extends his impact within his sphere of influence.  He does not cower when faced with an opponent.
<+Jennen> He will face up to the challenge.  He may back off if he realizes that he will lose.  But he will not cower.  He will pay honor and respect to the man that bests him.
* +Jennen thinks
<+Jennen> Lastly, a Gorean understands the relationship between men and women, and between slave and free, and behaves accordingly.
<+Jennen> A Gorean can have all these things, and be Gorean, but not have honor.
<@Saphrar> Port Kar of course is a written example
<+Jennen> Each of us chooses whom he or she will associate with.  Honorable Goreans typically choose to associate with honorable Goreans.
<@Saphrar> but... honour is still important for Goreans
<@Saphrar> I say honour is crucial for Goreans, even though it may not always exist
* +Jennen grins
<@Saphrar> it is said that a Gorean would much rather die for honour, than for gold, if I am correct?
<@Saphrar> I cant exactly recall the quote
<+Jennen> Each community has their own definition of honor.
<+Jennen> Honor to the executives of Enron would encompass just how much they could get away with.  The one who could get away with the most would hold the greatest honor among them.
* @Saphrar chuckles
* @Saphrar nods
<+Jennen> So, what is left is to define honor according to the standards I hold high, and then seek to associate with those who also hold that honor dear.
<+Jennen> Who have the same definition that I do.
* @Saphrar nods listening
<+Jennen> In the Books, that honor was well defined.
<+Jennen> An honorable Gorean is:
<+Jennen> loyal to Home Stone, to family, to caste.
<+Jennen> Honest and open, allowing for customary bribes and such.
<+Jennen> He follows through with his word, to the very best of his ability.
* @Saphrar nods
<+Jennen> He takes care of that which he calls his own.  His family, his property, etc.
<+Jennen> He is concerned with doing his job well.  Much more concerned with that than maximizing his income.
<+Jennen> Do you think we missed anything, Saphrar?
<@Saphrar> I think its something that can be debated for hours
<@Saphrar> Norman spent what, 26 novels trying to define it
<+Jennen> I don't know that I agree with that claim, Saphrar.
<+Jennen> I think it was pretty simple to him, and he wrote the books that way.
<@Saphrar> how so, Jennen?
<+Jennen> Traditional Honor.
<@Saphrar> ahh okay
<+Jennen> Today's atmosphere of toleration has muddied the waters quite a bit, but the tradition still remains.
<+Jennen> Yes, people have defined honor many different ways, but for Norman it was pretty simple.
<+Jennen> Live upright and true to the principles that make the best society and the best man.